Eucharist: presence
- S04.1 Real, objective presence; ‘figure’ and ‘sacrament’ language does not deny it (high)
- S04.2 Real change, mode undefined; elements’ nature persists (Theodoret) (high)
From the study it came from: Agree on real presence; diverge in emphasis on sacrifice, where Hebrews' 'once for all' sits alongside the fathers' sacrificial language.
Two separate measures, shown side by side; neither is combined with the other (confidence-weighted, out of 4; counts show how many of this doctrine's 2 questions each rests on). This doctrine is second-order (tier weight 2). How scoring works · Scripture and tradition · Glossary · Every score with its citation
Closeness to Scripture
Closeness to the fathers
Charts: closeness to the fathers by question, and timeline
- c. 110 Ignatius S04.1
- c. 155 Justin Martyr S04.1
- c. 180 Irenaeus S04.1
- c. 390 Ambrose S04.2
- c. 450 Theodoret S04.1
- c. 730 John of Damascus S04.2
- 1530 Augsburg Confession Lutheran
- 1551 Trent XIII Catholic
- 1562 Trent XXII Catholic
- 1646 Westminster Confession Presbyterian
- 1672 Confession of Dositheus Orthodox
S4 · Eucharist: presence
Transubstantiation, mystery, sacramental union, spiritual presence, memorial.
Tier: Second-order (scoring weight 2). How the tiers were set: theological triage. Site structure: structure.
Questions
Verdicts and trace
S04.1 · Real presence
| Question | Verdict | Confidence | Reasoning | Key sources | Scripture (benchmark) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S04.1 | Real, objective presence; ‘figure’ and ‘sacrament’ language does not deny it | High | S04.1.1 · S04.1.3 weighing | ignatius-euc-s1 · justin-martyr-euc-s1 · irenaeus-euc-s2 · theodoret-euc-s1 | S04.1.4: medium-high |
S04.2 · Change and mode
| Question | Verdict | Confidence | Reasoning | Key sources | Scripture (benchmark) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S04.2 | Real change, mode undefined; elements’ nature persists (Theodoret) | High | S04.2.1 · S04.2.3 weighing | ambrose-euc-s1 · john-of-damascus-euc-s1 | S04.2.4: not a Scripture question |
Post-750 development
Which of this doctrine’s questions each tradition stays closest to, or departs from. Each row links to the tradition’s notes.
| Tradition | Closest to the fathers on | Departs or sharpens on |
|---|---|---|
| Catholic | S04.1 | S04.2 substance metaphysics |
| Orthodox | S04.1; S04.2 (‘unsearchable’) | Dositheus borrows Latin terms |
| Oriental Orthodox | S04.1; S04.2 | — |
| Lutheran | S04.1 | S04.2 no change |
| Anglican | S04.1 | partly S04.1; S04.2 |
| Presbyterian | Augustine’s sign distinction | S04.1 realism |
| Reformed Baptist | — | S04.1; S04.2 |
| General Baptist | — | S04.1; S04.2 |
| Anabaptist | — | S04.1; S04.2 |
Where the tier is contested
The default tier above follows the triage criteria. These traditions place it differently, and the scores page recomputes the rankings under each tradition’s own tiers.
| Tradition | Its tier | Basis |
|---|---|---|
| Catholic | First-order | Lumen gentium 11 (‘source and summit’) |
| Lutheran | First-order | Formula of Concord VII (to verify article) |
| Orthodox | First-order | Confession of Dositheus 17 (to verify) |
Origin
Plan, overall verdict and verification status of the former eucharist category (shared with the other doctrines that came from it)
Eucharist
Method and conventions: docs/conventions.md. Reasoning: eucharist reasoning.
1. Plan
Questions: E1 real presence; E2 sacrifice; E3 manner of change. Sources: Didache 14; Ignatius, Smyrn. 7; Justin, 1 Apol. 66; Irenaeus AH IV.17–18 and V.2; Tertullian, Marc. IV.40; Cyprian Ep. 62; Cyril of Jerusalem, Myst. 4; Ambrose, Myst. 9; Augustine, Tract. Jo. 26 and Ep. 98; Theodoret, Eranistes 2; John of Damascus IV.13. Planned but not yet read: Chrysostom, On the Priesthood III.4; Gregory of Nyssa, Catechism 37; Augustine, Sermon 272; Gelasius, De duabus naturis. Scripture: Synoptic institution narratives; 1 Cor 10–11; John 6; Mal 1:11; Heb 7–10, 13:10.
2. Verdicts and trace
Weighed under the source-proximity principle: Scripture first, then the father tiers T1–T4. Verdict changes are listed in docs/proximity-changes.md.
3. Post-750 development
4. Overall verdict
Orthodox closest (John of Damascus is in effect the Orthodox position). Catholic is very close, adding a scholastic definition of the mode and the propitiatory precision. Lutheran matches on presence but not sacrifice. Presbyterian is furthest. Confidence: high.
5. Verification status
- Verified: all patristic entries, plus Trent XIII ch. 4, XXII ch. 2, Dositheus 17, AC X, WCF XXIX.2 and 7.
- To verify: Greek of Justin 66 (μεταβολή); authorship of the Mystagogical Lectures; Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine Sermon 272, Gelasius; AC XXIV; Lateran IV (1215); the wider Orthodox view of mode; LSB English.